Orem single Ward

Orem’s theory, in general, is viewed as a single whole thing while Orem defines a system as a single whole thing. Orem’s theory is simple yet complex. The use of self-care in multitudes of terms, such as self-care agency, self-care demand, self-care deficit, self-care requisites, and universal self-care, can be very confusing to the reader. Northridge Single Adult 1st Ward. Bishop Johnson: 801-224-0888. Sunday Meeting Schedule. 12:00 pm, Sacrament Meeting First. 1875 North 280 West. Orem, Utah 84057 What: Utah County’s second combined Mid-Single Adult (MSA) Institute! MSAs from the Sunset Heights 1st (formerly Orem 31st) Ward, Provo Oak Hills 8th ward, Provo Stake and others throughout the county will be coming. When: Wednesday, October 1st from 7:30pm-8:30pm. Where: Mountain View High School Seminary Bldg, 665 W. Center St, Orem. The Provo Utah Temple is the 15th operating temple of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). Located in the city of Provo, Utah, it was built with a modern single-spire design, similar to the original design of the Ogden Utah Temple.Located on Provo's east bench near the mouth of magnificent Rock Canyon, the Provo Utah Temple claims a stunning backdrop of towering mountains. The ward office phone number, if available. Types of Congregations (wards and branches) There are different types of Church congregations (wards and branches) serving Church members worldwide, including: Family: Traditional family congregations. Young single adult: Congregations for single adults ages 18 to 30 years old. A non-commercial information website provided as a service for LDS Singles ages 31 and over in Northern Utah and surrounding areas. This is not an official site sponsored by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The website was released in early March and is currently geared toward Provo and Orem single adults. “Ideally, we would like to have ratings for every ward,” Pendleton said.

Started going back to church.

2019.09.11 20:29 stevenswall Started going back to church.

Two of my roommates are mormon, one is not.
I've started going to the singles ward in Orem with them, and it's gotten me to think more about something I've considered for a while: If there is a group based on a fantasy novel that isn't based on reality, and you get positive social interaction out of this group enough that it's a net positive even if it's boring and you reject it as a moral authority, perhaps it's worth it to go to something like an LDS church to potentially have a larger social network.
We'll see how this turns out, but I'm curious if anyone else has tried this after a few years of being out. I'm as out as ever, and don't support any groups that try to define morality, but I'd almost say that relative to my normally assumed community (gay men, exmormons, democrats) I feel more like a person at church talking with people than most anywhere else. Sometimes I even miss BYU Idaho and the friends there. Sure, they believed something false, but that doesn't affect me beyond sitting through some nonsense.
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2019.04.03 21:10 EricNDavis Ten Year anniversary of my name removal - A House of Faith, House of Cards, retrospective: Ch.5 "Back in the Real World" E26 "The Day that Changed Everything"

previous episode:
https://www.reddit.com/exmormon/comments/b8nfnm/ten_year_anniversary_of_my_name_removal_a_house/
Chapter Five - Back in the Real World
The Day that Changed Everything
Throughout history, every generation faces a singular moment or event that helps shape the attitude and direction of the world. People around the globe will occasionally ask each other and discuss where they were, or what they were doing, when they first witnessed the event in question. My grandparents had Pearl Harbor; my parents, the assassination of John F. Kennedy. What singular moment would forever change the course of American history for my generation?
My employer had recently finished a warehouse expansion project, and I spent a couple weeks helping my coworkers move equipment into a new section of the building. That Monday night, on graveyard shift, I set up the machinery and began processing the first work order in that department. At 7:30 a.m., I completed my work day as usual, located my vehicle in the employee parking lot, and proceeded home. As a regular habit, I switched on the car radio to listen to my favorite sports talk station.
“…and you can see what appears to be the outline of an airplane as it struck the tower,” the radio host announced as he described what he apparently saw unfolding before him on a nearby television set. This sounded like no football discussion I expected to hear. Then the words “World Trade Center,” and “New York” entered the conversation. I knew this must be something big. Little did I know just how big September 11, 2001, was about to become.
The terrorist attacks, which resulted in staggering death tolls in New York, Washington D.C., and rural Pennsylvania, forever altered the course of the United States and most of the rest of the world. Fortunately for me, these events did not directly affect my life. I had no friends or family, close or distant, caught up in the tragedy. But even as I sat safely in my own home, mouth agape, raptly watching the coverage of the destruction, the dominoes had already begun toppling. Nine-Eleven set in motion a chain of events that would ultimately change every facet of my existence.
Shortly following the happenings of that fateful day, immigration became a hot-button issue in the media and throughout politics. The United States government warned of tightened policy on foreigners seeking to gain entrance into the country, as well as undocumented aliens already residing within the borders. My wife was one of the latter. Contrary to popular belief (and a recent film starring Sandra Bullock and Ryan Reynolds) Lilith did not automatically become a legal resident by simply marrying me. Previously we never had enough money to afford the fees associated with the immigration process.
Not knowing what the repercussions of new government policies meant for us, we decided it was time to finally bite the bullet and make my wife legal. Lilith and I found a local attorney, who helped us prepare all the necessary documents, and we spent several hours in multiple appointments with immigration officials. To make a long story short, my wife finally became a legal resident with a work visa, just before New Year’s Day, 2002.
Over the next few months, Lilith found temporary work assignments through a local hiring agency. Then, in April 2002, she began a full-time job at the Orem, Utah Wal-Mart. She made new friends and had something to keep her from thinking about Canada all the time. She seemed truly happy, and that kept me satisfied. We were taking care of our responsibilities, making money, having fun, and catching up on bills. It finally felt good to be alive.
“I have something I need to tell you,” Lilith announced one morning in late May, as she arrived home from work. We sat down on opposite sides of the room facing each other. She seemed anxious about something. Perhaps she might be preparing to tell me about a promotion, but I worried that she may have been fired. I did not expect to hear what came out of her mouth next.
“I found someone at work, and I really like him. I think we need to separate so I can figure out what I want to do with my life.” For the next few minutes, I just sat there trying to soak in what I heard. After all the hell we had put each other through, followed by all the work we put into turning our life around, and moving in a positive direction. Now she wanted to jump ship.
“Okay, if that’s what you really want to do,” I muttered.
At that point I didn’t have anything to say to her. I wasn’t even sure what the appropriate response should be. But we did agree that separation would be best to decide what direction we wanted to take our lives in the future. I’m certain she already knew which direction she planned to go, as we shall see later.
Lilith spent the next couple of weeks searching for housing she could afford on her Wal-Mart income. Eventually she settled on a one-bedroom apartment in a complex several blocks away; a building formerly used as a school.
One morning in July, as I slept, Lilith and her new boyfriend came into the house and removed all her possessions, as well as the joint items we previously agreed she would take.
I awoke that afternoon to a mostly empty house and an eerie silence. Not a single voice, or a smell, or a person’s touch greeted me as I began my day. For the second time in the last two years, I found myself alone, contemplating the next step in life.
By the end of the month, my wife made it known that she planned on filing for a divorce. For me, this news came as more of a relief than anything else. Glad to be done with her and all the problems we created together, I could now move on in a direction of my own choosing.
I no longer needed three bedrooms, and the rent for the town house in which I still lived, strained my tightening budget. So, I began looking around for alternative residences. My hopes were to find a way to save as much money as possible.
The local newspaper classified ads offered a variety of rental options, including shared living spaces. I found one such house on Main Street in Spanish Fork, only a mile away from my place of work. The small, four-bedroom, red brick rambler had a recent vacancy, which the owner sought to fill with a new roommate. I settled in to one of the basement rooms, late August 2002.
For a time, I didn’t know what to do with myself. All my life I had at least one other person around, connected to me in some way. Parents ruled my life until I reached 18. After that, I lived with my sister and her husband, followed by mission companions, my parents again, and eventually a wife. Now, for the first time, I was completely on my own.
I attended the local LDS ward on Sundays the first few weeks upon arriving at my new location, but soon discovered I didn’t really fit in with the group. The members of this congregation were either middle-aged couples with a half dozen kids, or retirees with a foot in the grave. I wanted to find a place where I could explore what life had to offer.
The bishop of my ward kindly informed me that a ward met in Spanish Fork, entirely comprised of young single adults, like myself. I told him I didn’t feel comfortable attending there, because technically I was still married. Not knowing if my wife might want to get back together, as she had in 2000, I remained in limbo for another month.
“We need to go meet with the public notary tomorrow to sign the papers,” Lilith’s voice announced to me over the phone.
I had arrived home from work and just finished a shower that morning. The phone rang as I prepared for bed. My soon to be ex-wife had called with an update on her progress in life.
“I found a cheap paralegal to help with the divorce, so I’m going to pay for it,” she offered. “All I want from you is a little money so I can buy a new car. Then it will be all finished.”
“How much is a little money,” I queried.
“Six-hundred dollars,” Lilith replied.
“I think I can do that. Do you mind if I give you half now and the other half next month?”
“Sure, that’ll be fine.”
“Okay then, I’ll see you tomorrow.” The line clicked as she hung up the phone.
I paused for a moment allowing what I had just heard to sink into my thoughts. After setting the cordless phone back on its base, a wave of exhilaration immediately rushed over me. I ran into the next room and literally jumped for joy. Unfortunately, the basement where I lived had only seven-foot high ceilings. When my six-three frame leapt into the air, I struck the crown of my head, leaving me with a terrible throbbing headache the rest of the day. But it was the best headache of my life.
We signed the divorce papers, on October 17, 2002, and the judge signed off, on the 28th. Before the ink dried on that document, Lilith was already planning her next wedding. She set a date a mere three weeks after the divorce went final. But the story between us had one final twist to tell.
Two weeks before her wedding, Lilith called me and asked for a favor. Her sister and niece planned to travel from Canada to Utah for the big day. She asked if I would hang out with and entertain them while she and her new husband went on a three-day honeymoon.
The audacity required for her to make a request like that absolutely astounded me. I couldn’t tell if she had deluded herself into thinking I still loved her enough to want to sacrifice my time for her, or if Lilith, in her ignorance, had lost all sense of decorum. Either way, any responsibility I may have had to serve her ended the moment we put our names on divorce documents.
For the record, I did, in no uncertain terms, refuse Lilith’s request. I followed that up by questioning the intelligence, or lack thereof, required for making that kind of request. My obvious lack of support for her cause apparently didn’t impress her, so that telephone call the first week of November 2002, was our final conversation. I have not seen her, nor heard her voice since. Life was looking up.
The following Sunday, I returned to my bishop, to enquire about that ward for young single adults.
Next episode: Floating About Flonette
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2019.02.25 22:43 Kind_Adhesiveness Fuck chastity interviews and sexual assault cover-ups!

Posting this mostly for validation and because part of me wants to scream FUCK YOU to the men who interview anyone about their chastity and worthiness. Today I was triggered in class at UVU, hence what sparked this post.
Flashback to 8 years ago I’m preparing to serve a mission. I’d always been a good Mormon. (I didn’t even have a boyfriend or kiss a boy until I was 20). I sort of had a rough time once with a boyfriend who manipulated me into giving him oral sex (I was very uneducated about everything growing up, my parents wouldn’t let us participate in sex ed) and I thought this, and my heavy petting was going to send me to hell, so I half confessed to our singles ward bishop who at the time was my uncle. (This literally makes me never want to see him at any family events. Luckily they live out of state and I rarely do). Aside from that I tried to forget about my “sins” and for the most part I did. I moved out of the country and since I was living abroad, I felt the need to fully confess here. I was advised by my branch president not to take the sacrament for weeks there.
I bawled during my first worthiness interview and felt unbearable shame during this time, even though I volunteered to do this. My only consolation was that I was living in the middle of nowhere attending a small branch in a foreign country, where I’d never have to return again. My hope in confessing abroad was to heal and move on and never think of it again.
Boy was I wrong!
After coming home I started preparing for my mission. My ward bishop at the time was in Orem, and he wanted to rake me across the coals. In my head I had healed, I had moved on, I was living a chaste life. I had suffered for my sins and put it behind me! The mission prep process was so brutal though, and this bishop repeatedly asked me if I had ever been asked to stop taking the sacrament or repent of sexual sins. Being the good little Mormon that I was it never even occurred to me to just not mention this all again. I felt like I was FORCED into another confession.
The interview I had voluntarily walked into abroad was simple. I spoke minimal Spanish, the branch president had never conducted worthiness interviews before and asked for no details. My interview with my Orem bishop was horrific. He asked me how many times I had performed oral sex. Literally making me the absolute most uncomfortable and ashamed I’ve ever felt in my entire life! Not only this but to get approval for leaving on my mission I had to repeat this again with my stake president. Again he asked me how many times I had performed oral sex. I’ve never wanted to crawl out of my skin more than during these interviews. Still, even with the discomfort, I never questioned the process, never questioned the church. They deliberately made me talk about sexual things I had buried and healed from years before.
Fast forward and I’ve since resigned from the church. Realized I was a victim of sexual assault, on more than one occasion. For the last few years I’ve viewed these experiences as a violation of my very being. I wish the interviews would end.
As if the story couldn’t get worse it does. So I’m sitting in class TODAY at UVU and we’re having an emotional discussion on male privilege. Many girls in our class were in tears sharing experiences they had experienced growing up being sexually assaulted or harassed. The shocking thing happened when one girl (who happens to be the daughter of the bishop who interviewed me before my mission) shared her story. I’ve known this girl was my former Bishop’s daughter, we’re friends on Facebook, but I’ve never felt the need to bring the fact up that I know her dad because I don’t want to deal with a possible shit storm when she finds out I’ve resigned from the church.
Anyways, she starts going on about how she was molested as a child and her dad was the Bishop! He knew the boy in the ward who did it, and chose not to press charges because this boy needed to be given an opportunity to change and he felt the need to teach his daughter forgiveness. She told us with tears streaming down her face that the same boy who molested her had previously molested another girl in the ward before her, AND HER FATHER AS THE BISHOP KNEW! He knew this boy had molested someone else, then he invited the same boy to their house, where he later molested his daughter! Then he doesn’t press charges and tells her to forgive him.
WHAT THE HELL! I literally wrote WHAT THE FUCK in my class notes for the day. The very same man who grilled me about every nasty detail of my “sex” life, had literally allowed his daughter to be molested. And here she is bawling her eyes out in anger, sitting next to me in class. I was absolutely fuming. No one brought up any issues with the church. No one dared mention the absurdity that occurs when bishops act like this. No one said a damn thing!
Part of me wants to write this bishop and stake president saying fuck you. Fuck you for shaming us! Fuck you for taking the law into your own hands and hurting your daughter and those other precious victims. Fuck them all for covering it up! I’m so tired of this shit!
Just had to vent. Just had to hurt. Just had to scream!
These men have no business talking to women or men. They have no business doling out shitty unqualified, unprofessional and damaging advice! How can we stop this? These our our neighbors and friends and children. My heart aches for anyone who has or is experiencing this! It needs to stop.
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2019.02.23 00:24 bigskit13 "The end justifies the means " ysa behavior question for the sub

Here's one for everyone. I hope it gets some attention during the selfie train. Im not judging, just throwing out my ysa experience to see if others found the same.
Im 33 and single. Returned home from a European mission in 05 a month early to attend a military academy. Ive lived in a number of places around the world, and all over the states. So ive been in many ysa wards, branches and groups.
Im a very social person and have attended a lot of group activities, both sponsored by the church and not. Everything from the European festinord to the massive moab ysa trip that happens every year. Dated, socialized, parties, byu housing off and on campus, uvu.. you name it, I've likely attended or am familiar.
In almost every ward i found a familiar sight. The group of attractive/ popular kids that ran the social scene. Usually pretty exclusive. The pious kids, the border line activity kids and usually the small group that ran everything in the ward.. callings, showed up to all the service projects etc.. the quiet kids and those that didn't fit the mold. Obvious overlap between groups.
I always seemed to float between all groups. I traveled a lot so i never fit into one. I was "fun enough" to be treated nicely by the cool kids but "not cool" enough to get a lot of attention. I seemed to jive with almost everyone because i never felt like i fit the "mormon social mold".
Anyway, over the years i noticed that what happened on the surface was often misleading to the truth. For example: If i had a penny for every time i heard roommates having sex with young girls in the ward, only to see both continue with their presidency calling the next day i probably could have paid off my loans by now. :)
I noticed severe depression among the girls of my wards. Didn't feel pretty enough, never got asked out, no true friends etc. I assume many of the guys felt similar.
One group of roommates i had kind of "hit it big" by helping with YouTube movies. So parties at our orem house were the magnet of the town. Due to my job i kind of had an observer view of it all. Alcohol was present, cheating, girl or guy pretty much engaged to someone.. only to find someone better ... suddenly marry the other in the temple months later leaving the ex high and dry. I could go on and on.
Even in my own life... was dating a girl and talking marriage. She was leading the way. Suddenly she bailed and i find out from friends that she'd been on the lds dating app mutual the entire time and met someone. Why waist the time?
Point is, i found that cliques, elite social behaviour, depression, and dishonesty were often staples of many wards. Sure i met a lot of amazing people, as well as one ward in particular that was outstanding but.....i often found that for many ysa, as long as they found their "eternal hunk or babe " their behavior didn't matter. The end justified the means. Suddenly many whom broke the rules were suddenly straight edge mormons after marriage.
It's interesting to note that many of these marriages have since collapsed. To judge someone for a b or c in dating all while breaking d e or f seemed to be the norm.
This behavior seemed true to me whether in Europe or the us. Has anyone else experienced or seem this ? Why do you think people behave this way when it's so contradicting to the lds "rulebook" ? What are your thoughts ? After being out for years in normal exmo life i find this to be interesting.
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2018.11.01 22:37 Cautious_Amoeba my bipolar exmormon story

my bipolar exmormon story
When I was 19 I had a severe manic episode that put me in the psych unit at Utah Valley Hospital for a week. It was my second week of college, and my parents were told their son had a psychotic break. They visited me there, and when I was discharged they helped me find somewhere new to live (my former roommates had kicked me out), and encouraged me to catch up on my schoolwork and move on. I spent a lot of my time alone in the following weeks and began to believe that what my doctors thought was mania was actual spiritual enlightenment. I stopped taking the meds, and up I went.
Mania is really the defining characteristic of Bipolar 1 Disorder, and it's wonderful, at least at first. The most mundane things take on intense beauty, like I could be captivated by the way the light hits the wrinkles on a bag of chips, or reflections on car windows. Music would take on shapes and textures that I wasn't before aware of. I had an unshakeable feeling of peace and contentment and was excited for what would come next.
As I learned however, mania is sorta like a feedback loop, it has a lifespan, and when you are visiting that place that I just described, you are essentially on a one way road to psychosis, and it happens quicker than you think.
I left TSCC in my late teens, and as I became manic, I didn't really have options to explain what was happening to me other than something mormon and divine. After a phone call where I told my mom I had been "gazing into eternity" my dad found me in my dorm room paranoid and muttering about priesthood power. During our drive home to St. George I feverishly explained to him the geographical connections between Israel and Utah, as well as the book of mormon and the Kabbalah. My dad was pleased to hear me again so passionate about the faith I had left.
I spent the next few weeks at home in St. George heavily medicated but still very manic. on some of those nights my father would sit up with me and pull out this giant book of mormon that we used to read as a family, He and I would take turns reading verses. when I got distracted we would look at the paintings and my dad would tell me what they were about. I remember looking at the painting of Alma the Younger when he's being struck down by an angel, and tearfully asking my dad how I could've been led astray enough to leave the church. He told me that he makes mistakes too and that I could be forgiven just like Alma. I agreed to join the singles ward when I moved back to Orem. I remember hugging my dad and feeling closer to him than I had in years.
The mania descended into paranoia in the following days, and my family was forced to commit me to the psych unit again, this time in St. George. I received the pictured letter that my dad wrote to me during this stay. It's difficult patching yourself back together after being psychotic for almost three weeks, and I was confused that I was mormon again, but I did tell my parents I would stick with it.
I didn't stick with it. I never went back. It's been almost two years since this stay and I'm proud to say that I haven't missed a day of work due to my illness. This experience was a tremendous burden to my family, and the fact that they still want me for eternity is more than I could ever deserve. I love my dad, and I'm looking forward to the day that we can once again be as close we were that night.
https://preview.redd.it/fgfg0bw9gsv11.jpg?width=3927&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a6b4d68291737e6b617006098b736db58b4a9415
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2018.11.01 22:32 Cautious_Amoeba my bipolar exmormon story

When I was 19 I had a severe manic episode that put me in the psych unit at Utah Valley Hospital for a week. It was my second week of college, and my parents were shocked to hear that their son had apparently lost his mind. They were told their son had a psychotic break and was brought to the hospital by the police. They visited me there, and when I was discharged they helped me find somewhere new to live (my former roommates had kicked me out), and encouraged me to catch up on my schoolwork and move on. I spent a lot of my time alone in the following weeks and began to believe that what my doctors thought was mania was actual spiritual enlightenment. I stopped taking the meds, and up I went.
Mania is really the defining characteristic of Bipolar 1 Disorder, and it's wonderful, at least at first. The most mundane things take on an intense beauty, like I could be captivated by the way the light hits the wrinkles on a bag of chips, or reflections on car windows. Music would take on shapes and textures that I wasn't before aware of. I had an unshakeable feeling of peace and contentment and was excited for what would come next.
As I learned however, mania is sorta like a feedback loop, it has a lifespan, and when you are visiting that place that I just described, you are essentially on a one way road to psychosis, and it happens quicker than you think.
I left TSCC in my late teens, and as I became manic, I didn't really have options to explain what was happening to me other than something mormon and divine. After a phone call where I told my mom I had been "gazing into eternity" my dad found me in my dorm room paranoid and muttering about priesthood power. During our drive home to St. George I feverishly explained to him the geographical connections between Israel and Utah, as well as the book of mormon and the Kabbalah. My dad was pleased to hear me again so passionate about the faith I had left.
I spent the next few weeks at home in St. George heavily medicated but still very manic. on some of those nights my father would sit up with me and pull out this giant book of mormon that we used to read as a family, He and I would take turns reading verses. when I got distracted we would look at the paintings and my dad would tell me what they were about. I remember looking at the painting of Alma the Younger when he's being struck down by an angel, and tearfully asking my dad how I could've been led astray enough to leave the church. He told me that he makes mistakes too and that I could be forgiven just like Alma. I agreed to join the singles ward when I moved back to Orem. I remember hugging my dad and feeling closer to him than I had in years.
The mania descended into paranoia in the following days, and my family was forced to commit me to the psych unit again, this time in St. George. I received the pictured letter that my dad wrote to me during this stay. It's difficult patching yourself back together after being psychotic for almost three weeks, and I was confused that I was mormon again, but I did tell my parents I would stick with it.
I didn't stick with it. I never went back. It's been almost two years since this stay and I'm proud to say that I haven't missed a day of work due to my illness. This experience was a tremendous burden to my family, and the fact that they still want me for eternity is more than I could ever deserve. I love my dad, and I'm looking forward to the day that we can once again be as close we were that night.






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2018.08.09 17:31 fistpumpbruh The time I gave Jeffrey Holland the bird to his face as a TBM and how it started me down the path to apostacy

I just remembered this happened about 4-6 years ago, back when I was still fresh off the mission and very active as a ward mission leader in my singles ward. TL;DR at the bottom.
One day, near black friday, I was down in south Orem by the University Mall going north on State street trying to turn left onto the road that goes behind Best Buy and straight on to UVU. I was trying to get into Best Buy the back way to get a new TV, but traffic was INSANE. I'm from Arizona, and a rural part at that, so being fresh off the mission and tossed into the absolute mess that was (and IS) the intersection of State and University was infuriating at the least. Add to the fact that I hate other drivers and have a notoriously foul mouth while driving and you have the perfect recipe for a mini rebellion from the hardcore TBM that I was.
Anyways, those of you who know this particular part of Orem know just how much of a clusterfuck it is around rush hour. Compound that with the fact that just north of the State and University intersection is another light about 50 yards from it and you can imagine what kind of hell on earth it is just to get out of there. For those of you who don't know, people going south will block the intersection of the light to the north of State and University just for a chance to get through the damn intersection in a timely manner.
Cue my run in with good ol' Holland.
As I said, I was trying to turn left to go behind Best Buy. I was waiting in line about two cars back from going, cursing every second of having to wait at that god-awful long light and throwing shade at every other being at that intersection. I wait for a couple cycles for my turn and finally, I'm sitting prime to finally be released from this purgatory and get my TV. The light turns yellow for the perpendicular lane and I start singing praises because I can at last see the end of this nightmare. The southbound lane is just about backed up all the way to our light, but there was just enough room to squeeze through once our turn came so I wasn't even mad.
That is, until out of the University Mall parking lot, which this light attaches to, comes this old man in the gargantuan Infiniti QX80, which is basically a Nissan Armada but bigger and more gaudy. He flies out, through the red light and comes to a rest RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GODDAMN INTERSECTION. I see this and immediately explode into a shower of obscene gestures and profanities. Being two cars back, I couldn't exactly see who the driver was, but I began carefully concocting a brew of homemade insults and gestures repugnant enough to have grounds to revoke my temple recommend just for this asshole of a person.
The driver seemingly realizes his mistake and tries to scootch his way out of ours by moving in between the two lanes he was merging into, blocking them as well. This move was met with honking and thrown hands by everyone around. Finally, though, he manages enough room to let us through and my line starts moving. The light gave us long enough that our whole line should've been let through, but because of this asshole and his huge SUV that I'm sure he NEEDS I was the last one to make it through the light before it turned again. As I approach this douche nozzle of a driver, I begin to unleash my salvo of profanity, and as I do so, I meet his eyes. Staring back at me was Jeffrey R. Holland, who I believed to be an apostle of the Lord at that time. We locked eyes as he looked past my outstretched arm holding my middle finger at full mast.
I started stuttering out of disbelief, but left my arm outstretched as I watched this geriatric man slink lower in his seat to try and not be recognized.
Looking back, that's really where I started loading up my shelf. As I related this story to others, they scolded me on my behaviour. "Maybe this was a sign from the lord to get your mouth cleaned!" OR, Maybe everyone should follow traffic laws, even prophets seers and revelators, I thought. It helped me realise that these dudes were just that; regular old guys who suck at driving and probably other stuff. It grounded my perception of the general authorities and helped me call bullshit on other just as dumb stuff they would eventually go on to do.
In any case, I still got my TV. In fact, I still have it. Unlike my testimony.
TL;DR: Ol' Jeff blocked an intersection during rush hour and I showed him what I thought about it and that eventually helped me leave the church.
Edit: fixed model of car he drove to correct one
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2018.05.11 06:18 Zfriske On the Separation of Assets – The Financial Cost of the BSA/LDS Split

This is a follow up report on a report made on May 10, 2018 entitled “A Mormon Divorce – The Ending of a Boy Scout Era by the Numbers”.
“Love is grand; divorce is a hundred grand." ~ Shinichi Suzuki
Overview (tl;dr): On paper, neither the BSA nor the LDS Church should walk away from this split without losing substantial financial assets on both sides; however, further analysis suggests both entities have sufficient war-chests to remain in a strong financial position post-separation:
  • The BSA gets the better part of this deal depending on a number of factors, not least of which includes a surprising increase in membership dues collected post-separation and first dibs to all assets belonging to the dissolved Utah councils – an estimated $50,619,729 depending on how things are actually split up between the BSA and LDS. The BSA will lose out on $220,116/yr in National Service Fees if the three councils dissolve, and continues to struggle in its 10 year decline in magazine sales. Overall contributions and BSA equipment/uniform sales show solid gains, and this combine with total assets of $1,471,984,000 in 2016 leaves the BSA in a strong position to move forward in its mission to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.
  • The LDS leave behind an estimated $50,619,729 in Boy Scout camps, buildings, and other assets to the BSA in just the act of dissolving three of the five existing Utah BSA Councils. This figure does not take into account the amount of funds the LDS Church as a whole and Mormon families individually have invested in other Local BSA Councils across the nation. This figure also does not take into account the untold tens of millions of dollars it will cost the LDS to replicate youth organization on the same level as the BSA. With this said, the LDS Church collects $8 Billion in tithing each year – $50 million lost plus another $50 million or more invested in creating a new youth organization is a drop in the bucket for the LDS Church and more than worth the expense to create a program better suited to the LDS Church’s international missionary needs.
How is the BSA National Organization Funded?
Funds to support the national organization of the Boy Scouts of America come from registration fees, local council service fees, investment income, Scouting and Boys’ Life magazines, sale of uniforms and equipment, and contributions from individuals. These monies help to deliver the program of the BSA (through four regional service centers and more than 300 local councils) to chartered organizations that use the Scouting program to meet the needs of their youth.
Lets break down each of these funding sources:
Registration Fees
On paper, this is the scariest loss of funding for the BSA National Organization. The BSA membership fee as of Dec. 1, 2017 was $33 a year for both youth AND adults.
With 470,000 Mormon youth exiting the BSA in 2019-2020, the BSA National Organization is looking at losing $15,510,000/yr in membership dues – essentially eclipsing the LDS $50 million loss in just four years.
However, this $15 million figure is misleading for three reasons. (1) It doesn’t account for registered Mormon adults in each Troop who also pay the $33 membership fee; (2) As covered in depth in a prior article and detailed further below, LDS Troops receive a discounted rate on their membership dues; (3) The membership fee was RAISED from $24/scout in 2014 to $33/scout in 2017 by the BSA National Organization in response to an anticipated departure by the LDS Church.
So let’s look at these calculations again in 2014 to 2019 terms:
2014
= ($24 Membership Fee)x(2,419,000 Mormon and non-Mormon Scouts) = $58,056,000 per year in Membership Fees
2019
= ($33 Membership Fee)x(1,871,000 non-Mormon Scouts) = $61,743,000.00 per year in Membership Fees
In the worst case scenario, where (1) 470,000 Mormon scouts all leave at once, (2) the BSA does not add or lose any other non-Mormon scouts (girls, LGBT, or otherwise) to its ranks, and (3) Mormon scouts paid the same dues as everyone else, the BSA still makes $3,687,000 MORE revenue without LDS scouts in its ranks than the organization made with LDS scouts.
However, we know not all 470,000 LDS scouts are leaving at once as some will stick around for a year or more to complete their Eagle Scout Award. We also know LDS scouts do not paid the same dues as everyone, as show by the BSA's own 2014 Financial Statement:
The Boy Scouts of America (BSA), consisting of 280 local councils, continued to deliver an exciting and valuable program to young people in 2014, with approximately 2,419,000 youth members and Explorers registered in individual programs. Approximately 981,000 registered adult leaders provide support to these youth.
Fees decreased in 2014 by $9,934 with the absence of the 2013 National Scout Jamboree fees totaling $32,784. This is offset by a membership fee increase effective January 1, 2014, which led to increased membership revenues despite a decline in membership.
The 2014 Financial Statement reports Revenue generated from Registration (Membership) Fee was $62,732,000 in 2014 with 2,419,000 youth and 981,000 adults.
($24 Membership Fee per youth/adult)x(3,400,000 youths and adults) = $81,600,000
This is $18,868,000 more than revenues reported by the BSA's 2014 Financial Statement - there are approximately 786,167 youths/adults ($18,868,000/$24 Membership Fee) missing from the 2014 Financial Statement. As the Utah BSA Councils stated to the Salt Lake Tribune:
The national BSA normally charges a $24 registration fee for each Scout and adult leader per year. However, a 2015 statement from the three BSA councils in Utah said those fees "are negotiated between the national BSA and the LDS Church. All registration fees are retained at the national BSA level."
Ironically enough, depending on how large a discount on membership fee LDS scouts get, the BSA National Organization may be earning way more revenue from its membership fees with the exit of the LDS and the addition of young women and the LGBT community into its ranks.
Local Council Service Fees
This fee is two parts paid on a yearly basis by each of the 280 Local BSA Councils across the nation.
The first is a fixed charter fee of $1,000 – this fee can be waived if the Local BSA Council turns in its Renewal Application before Mar. 1 of each year.
The second is the National Service Fee. The final amount of this fee is based upon data extracted from the council’s general ledger, and using the following formula:
(1) 2015 professional salaries (account No. 7002) for all funds (all funds being defined as Operating, Capital, and Endowment)
(2) 2015 office salaries (account No. 7003) for all funds (all funds being defined as Operating, Capital, and Endowment)
(3) Calculate the qualifying salaries for use in determining the 2017 national service fee (sum of figures 1 and 2 above)
(4) The council’s national service fee for 2017 is 3.5 percent of the qualifying salaries above* (multiply figure 3 above by .035)
*For those councils that will be charged a national service fee of $40,000 or greater for the year 2016, their fee will increase at the same rate of qualifying salary growth from 2014 to 2015, not to exceed 10 percent.
Examples: (1) If the council’s 2016 national service fee will be $48,783 and the qualifying salaries recorded in accounts 7002 and 7003 increased by 6.2 percent from 2014 to 2015, then the council’s national service fee for 2017 would also increase by 6.2 percent, or be $51,808.
(2) If the council’s 2016 national service fee will be $48,783 and the qualifying salaries recorded in accounts 7002 and 7003 were the same or decreased, the council agrees to and will be invoiced a national service fee of $48,783 for 2017.
The National Service Fee is pegged to the professional and office salaries of those employed in the BSA Local Council – changes in the number of scouts a local council has will not impact the National Service Fee assessed. Hence, across the nation, only Local BSA Councils at risk for closing because they do not serve enough scouts will be impacted.
Currently, only three BSA Councils are anticipated to be at risk of closing:
The BSA National Organization is likely to lose the following yearly revenue generated by the National Service Fee for these three Councils should they be dissolved:
  • GSL = $57,578
  • UNP = $89,166
  • TT = Unknown; Estimated to be average of GSL and UNP -> $73,372
In a worst case scenario, should all three Utah Councils go under, the BSA will lose at most $220,116/yr in National Service Fees due to the LDS split. In 2016, the BSA made $5,994,000 from interest and dividends alone on its investments - $220,116/yr is an easily absorbable loss.
Investment Income
In short, investments are affected by market conditions – not by the internal affairs of a single non-profit. Regardless, a short summary of the BSA’s investments:
Endowment Total
Balance Dec 21, 2015 $250,233,000
Investment return: -
Interest and Dividends $5,994,000
U Gains $20,599,000
Investment Manager Fee ($910,000)
Net investment return $25,683,000
Scouting and Boys’ Life magazines
The BSA National Organization’s flagship magazine is actually one area the BSA could really feel the hurt – nearly ever year Financial Statements were kept, the magazine’s revenue declined until hitting negative in both 2015 and 2016.
While the LDS/BSA split will certainly not help this situation, the BSA magazine has been declining in revenue for the last decade. Clearly the BSA needs to consider either scrapping the magazine entirely or moving to more cost effective options like sending out electronic subscriptions over email to save on printing costs.
Year Magazine Revenue
2005 $2,786,000
2006 $2,742,000
2007 $3,217,000
2008 $2,025,000
2009 $1,928,000
2010 $2,099,000
2011 $957,000
2012 $1,054,000
2013 $903,000
2014 $185,000
2015 ($753,000)
2016 ($2,651,000)
In short, the BSA magazine was an issue before the LDS/BSA split and will continue to be an issue long after the split. Again though, the BSA can temporarily cover this loss in revenue with gains in other areas of the organization – such as $5,994,000 interest gains on investments.
Sale of uniforms and equipment
Unlike the BSA flagship magazine, uniform and trading post sales have nearly tripled from 2005 to 2016, benefiting from a new wave of low overhead online shopping. While it remains to be seen how these sales might be impacted by the loss of 470,000 scouts, the addition of new demographics into the Scouts program means new uniforms and new equipment.
Year Trading Post Sales Revenue
2005 $5,953,000
2006 $4,278,000
2007 $4,108,000
2008 $6,559,000
2009 $4,835,000
2010 $7,702,000
2011 $12,246,000
2012 $8,232,000
2013 $10,495,000
2014 $10,773,000
2015 $14,892,000
2016 $13,367,000
Even in the most extreme situation where 20% loss of membership = 20% loss of Uniform and Equipment revenue, a 20% reduction in 2016 Sales means ($$13,367,000) - ($13,367,000)(0.20) = $10,693,600.00 in 2019 Sales Revenue -> Still better than almost every year up to 2014.
Contributions from Individuals
Individual contributions rose considerably in the 11 years spanning from 2005 to 2016, but at an unpredictable rate. The BSA will certainly be missing out on contributions given by LDS families, but the BSA has such a large endowment ($218,224,000 in invested assets in 2016) that the organization will be able smooth out any transition period between the LDS leaving and new demographics entering.
Year Contributions and Bequests
2005 $8,377,000
2006 $5,191,000
2007 $10,659,000
2008 $15,255,000
2009 $54,431,000
2010 $65,405,000
2011 $61,041,000
2012 $27,030,000
2013 $37,457,000
2014 $54,495,000
2015 $28,191,000
2016 $33,535,000

Ms. Peggy Stack and Mr. Lee Davison from The Salt Lake Tribune wrote an interesting article back in August on a topic generating much discussion with the Boy Scouts and Latter-Day Saints Wards – how badly will the BSA be hit financially for losing approximately 20% of its members in 2020 when the LDS Church officially parts ways with the Boy Scouts? In short, the Ms. Stack and Mr. Davison come to the conclusion any split will…
…have dire financial consequences for BSA. The LDS Church is far and away the nation's largest Scouting sponsor, serving 437,160 boys in 37,933 troops.
In 2013, more than a third (37 percent) of troops were LDS sponsored, accounting for 18 percent of the BSA's 2.4 million total membership (Mormon troops, while more numerous, tend to be smaller in size).
An LDS Church withdrawal also could ruin the three Scout councils in Utah, which say between 96 percent and 99 percent of their members are in Mormon units.
In Utah, the three councils say they have a combined 320,000 registered Scouts and adult leaders, the vast majority of whom are Mormon. Losing them could bring big financial blows to Scouting.
For example, the national BSA normally charges a $24 registration fee for each Scout and adult leader per year. The fee just for Mormon youths would cost $10.5 million a year. However, a statement from the Utah councils says those fees "are negotiated between the national BSA and the LDS Church. All registration fees are retained at the national BSA level."
In Utah, the Orem-based Utah National Parks Council says 99 percent of its Scouts are in LDS units. The Salt Lake City-based Great Salt Lake Council says 98 percent of its Scouts are. And the Ogden-based Trapper Trails Council says 96 percent of its youths are in Mormon-sponsored units.
Each year, the LDS Church supports a "Friends of Scouting" drive to ask members for donations to boost the local Scout councils — money which could disappear if the faith leaves. The Utah National Parks Council says the Friends of Scouting push provides 43 percent of its budget; the Trapper Trails Council says it generates 36 percent; and the Great Salt Lake Council receives 34 percent of its money from the effort. "The large majority of Friends of Scouting funds come from LDS units," according to the joint statement from the councils.
Questions also arise about what may happen to the many Scout camps in Utah if the LDS Church exits the organization.
In response to Salt Lake Tribune questions, the local councils wrote, "All camp properties are either owned by the council or are leased properties from the Forest Service. Each council is a 501(c)3 corporation separate from the Boy Scouts of America or any other council. The properties would continue to serve Scouting and the needs of religious and other youth groups in our communities."
There is a lot to unpack in this article. We have already covered facts concerning BSA's suprsingly solid financial footing despite loosing 20% of its membership. Let’s next focus on what Local BSA Councils are and what happens when Local BSA Councils dissolve.
BSA Organization and Local BSA Councils in Utah
The Organization of the Boy Scouts of America is a topic that requires a post of its own (conveniently found here!). In short, the BSA is run by a National Executive Council that, among other functions; develops program; sets and maintains quality standards in training, leadership selection, unforming, registration records, literature development, and advancement requirements; and publishes Boys' Life and Scouting magazines.
The National Executive Council does not attempt to administer directly the more than 150,000 registered Boy Scout units (troops, packs, venturing crews, etc.). To achieve this, each year, the National Council issues a charter to an autonomous organization called a Local Council. The United States and its territories is divided into local councils. Local councils are usually not-for-profit private corporations registered within the State in which they are headquartered.
The State of Utah actually has five Local BSA Councils - not three - however, The Salt Lake Tribune can be forgiven for this slight accounting error because: (1) the Great Southwest Council (GSW) is headquartered in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and provides Scouting to 7,260 youth in northern New Mexico, northeast Arizona, Utah south of the Colorado River, and the Durango and Mesa Verde areas of Colorado; and (2) the Snake River Council (SN) serves a number of Scouts in Idaho, Nevada, and Utah.
There are three Utah based BSA Councils who are composed of between 96% - 99% Mormon youth and focus only on the State of Utah:
Of these five Local BSA Councils, only GSL, UNP, and TT are at risk of dissolving in 2020 once the Latter-Day Saints Church officially splits from the BSA. Both GSW and SN have enough geographic dispersment and diversity of membership to survive the split relatedly unscathed.
So what would happen if a Local BSA council suddenly dissolved?
Well fortunately the Boy Scouts of America have been around for nearly 120 years as a national youth organization, and in this time plenty of Local BSA Councils have come and gone. Hence, the BSA National Executive Council has had plenty of time to develop and enact procedures for what happens to Local BSA Councils when they dissolve:
BSA Rules and Regulations; III. Local Councils
Council or Unit Assets Upon Dissolution
Consistent with the Bylaws, in the event of the dissolution of a council or the revocation or lapse of its charter, the Executive Committee may, at its option, authorize the National Council to assume charge of the affairs of the council and continue operation pending reorganization or reestablishment of the council or wind up the business of the council. All funds and property in the possession or control of such council must be applied to the payment of the council’s obligations. Any surplus funds or property may thereafter be administered as deemed to be in the best interests of Scouting.
In the event of the dissolution of a unit or the revocation or lapse of its charter, unit funds and assets must be used to first satisfy any outstanding unit obligations. Any remaining assets obtained with funds raised in the name of Scouting must be redeployed for Scouting use in the local area. Any assets obtained with funds from the chartered organization or parents of registered members may be redeployed as agreed upon by the chartered organization and local council.
Any property or funds acquired by the National Council upon the dissolution of a Scouting unit or local council will be administered so as to make effective, as far as possible, the intentions and wishes of the donors.
Real Estate
Except as hereafter provided with respect to incorporated local councils, the title to all real estate acquired for a unit or local council must be vested in a bank or trust company, in trust for the use of the unit or local council in accordance with the wishes of the donor with the provision that if such property cannot be utilized in such a manner, and title does not revert to the donor, that title or beneficial use of the property must nonetheless be for the benefit of Scouting in the local area.
Any incorporated local council may hold title to real property in its own name provided that in the event of the dissolution of the unit or council or the revocation or lapse of its charter said trustee or trustees will, after satisfying any claims against such unit or council to which such real estate may be subject, convey said property or, if sold, pay the net proceeds of such sale to the Boy Scouts of America, which may hold or use said property or funds for the benefit of Scouting in such locality or elsewhere if there is not suitable opportunity to use said property or funds in such locality. Any incorporated local council holding title to real property in its own name must ensure that its certificate or articles of incorporation expressly provide for the conveyance of such property or the net proceeds from the sale thereof to the Boy Scouts of America in the event of the dissolution of the local council or the revocation or lapse of its charter in a manner consistent with this provision.
Restricted Funds
Restricted funds received by a unit or local council must in all cases be held (a) in trust by either a corporate trustee for a bank or trust company, the National Boy Scouts of America Foundation, or the Boy Scouts of America Endowment Master Trust; or (b) in the Boy Scouts of America Commingled Endowment Fund LP for the use of the unit or the local council, in accordance with the wishes of the donors, with the provision in the statement of the conditions governing the administering of the funds that in the event of the dissolution of the unit or council or revocation or lapse of its charter said funds will, after any claims against said funds are satisfied, be turned over to the Boy Scouts of America for use by the Boy Scouts of America for the benefit of Scouting in such locality and for the specific purposes for which the fund was granted. If there is no suitable opportunity for the use of said funds in such locality, they may be used elsewhere.
This is A LOT to unpack, but here are the highlights;
Registration
  • Every Local BSA Council across the US is registered as a separate 501(c)3 corporation separate from the Boy Scouts of America or any other council. Every Council owns assets and liabilities separate from the BSA parent organization.
  • However (and this is very important), every Local BSA Council, including all five Councils in the State of Utah, are legally bound to the rules and provisions as laid out by the BSA Executive National Committee. These rules clearly spell out the actions that will be taken once a Council is dissolved, including the BSA’s right to all of the Council’s property and most of the Council’s assets.
Steps Taken Upon Utah Council Dissolution
  • (1) National Committee will step in and take control of all Utah Local BSA Councils under threat of dissolution. The Committee will do everything in its power to keep the Local Councils alive including moving remaining scouts to other troops or other councils in extreme cases. You can already see this process starting with the GSL Council here.
  • (2) If the Local BSA Council cannot be saved, then the Councils will be permanently shuttered. Now here is where things get really interesting – all Local BSA Council assets and liabilities are turned over to the BSA Executive Council. These assets are first used to pay off all outstanding debt carried by the Local BSA Council. The remaining assets “raised in the name of Scouting” will be kept by the BSA Executive Council, while assets “obtained with funds from the chartered organization or parents of registered members may be redeployed as agreed upon by the chartered organization and local council.”
  • Real Estate - Any buildings and land owned outright by Local BSA Councils is first used to pay off outstanding liabilities. After this, the buildings and land is turned over to the BSA Executive Committee to be given over to other BSA Local Councils. If no other Councils can make use of the property or land, the real estate is sold off and the funds are kept by the BSA to deploy to other Local Councils across the nation. This will be important when we examine the Financial statements of Utah Local BSA Councils next.
So now that we have an idea of the process each Local BSA Council must go through if it dissolves, lets look at what assets and liabilities two Utah BSA Councils have which, at least on paper, will be turned over to the BSA:
GREAT SALT LAKE COUNCIL CONSOLIDATED FINANCIAL STATEMENTS AND ADDITIONAL INFORMATION - 2016
CONSOLIDATED STATEMENT OF FINANCIAL POSITION ASSETS
CURRENT ASSETS 2016 USD AMOUNT
Cash and cash equivalents $3,845,891
Accounts receivable $25,779
Pledges receivable $84,365
Note receivable $91,456
Inventories $117,699
Due from (to) other funds -
Deferred activity expenses $1,011,094
Prepaid expenses $46,379
Note receivable from subsidiary -
TOTAL CURRENT ASSETS 5,222,663
NON-CURRENT ASSETS 2016 USD AMOUNT
Note receivable, less current position $746,432
Cash restricted to investment L/B/E $456,392
Land/Buildings/Equipment, net $17,084,440
Due from (to) other funds -
Note receivable from subsidiary -
Long-term investments $5,571,352
Investments in subsidiary -
Deferred income taxes $33,400
Other assets $4,290
TOTAL NON-CURRENT ASSETS $23,896,306
TOTAL ASSETS $29,118,969
LIABILITIES
CURRENT LIABILITES 2016 USD AMOUNT
Current position of long-term debt $205,625
Accounts payable $639,138
Accrued expenses $54,610
Custodial accounts $85,079
Deferred income $1,153,079
Other current liabilities -
TOTAL CURRENT LIABILITES $2,137,531
LONG-TERM DEBT, net of current position $2,202,476
OTHER NON-CURRENT LIABILITES $1,643,304
TOTAL LIABILITES $5,983,311
What do these numbers mean?
In 2020, approximately 72,844 Mormon scouts (98% of the GSL) will walk away from the GSL leaving approximately 1,487 non-Mormon scouts behind. The BSA National Executive Committee will take over the GSL, and take control of $29,118,969 in assets and $5,983,311 in liabilities that the Latter-Day Saints Church walks away from. Lets look at some interesting things the LDS Church is leaving behind (at least initially and according to the BSA Bylaws) to the Boy Scouts:
  • $84,365 Monetary Pledges from mostly Mormon Scout Families in 2016
  • $17,084,440 in Land, Buildings, and Leaseholds in 2016; This figure includes construction costs for the Thomas S. Monson Lodge which amounted to $6,229,000. It is likely the lodge will retain its name when it is initially turned over to the BSA as seen in past cases of councils dissolving. It also includes 564.82 acres purchase the on the East Fork of the Bear River from the State of Utah Schools and Institutions Trust Lands Administration (“SITLA”), as well as the Federal lease ownership of Camp Steiner. Additionally, Hinckley Scout Ranch and Millcreek Canyon Camps will be initially retained by the BSA.
  • The following Money Market Accounts, Treasury Notes, Corporate Bonds, and Real Estate Trusts:
INVESTMENTS 2016 USD AMOUNT
Money Mkt Accounts $900,822
Fixes Income Securities: -
U.S. Treasury Notes $117,964
Corporate Bonds $50,326
Mortgage Backed Gov Sec $287,747
Mutual Funds: -
Domestic $735,224
International $696,577
Equities: -
Domestic $1,099,311
International $628,107
Real Estate Investment Trusts $478,477
Alternative Investments $576,767
TOTAL $5,571,352
It goes without saying this level of professional investment is really really unique to find in a Local BSA Council. I honestly have never seen anything like this – though I do come from a poor and tiny Local BSA Council.
On a side note, “Alternative Investments” is accounting slang for things like Bitcoin – so it is pretty humorous to think there is a remote possibility that scouting in Utah could be funded in part by Bitcoin.
  • The following land restrictions:
“The Council owns two parcels of land, which have permanent restrictions on them. The Council’s Headquarters is on a piece of land that was given to the Council as long as it is used as the Scout Headquarters. The property’s restriction was removed in 2016 through the Council’s payment of $1,590,000 to the holder of the restrictions. The other restricted property is the Bear Lake Camp in Rich County, Utah, which represents approximately 289 acres that was given to the Council to use strictly as a Boy Scout Camp.”
  • The purchase of the Council Headquarters land in 2016 to remove the Boy Scout restriction is an interesting move. This move was made around the same time the LDS Church began to take active measures to claw back as much as it could from Local BSA Councils around the US before announcing a split in 2018. No matter what happens with this split, the LDS will lose Bear Lake Camp to the BSA.
Summary of GSL Council Dispersal of Assets and Liabilities
$29 million in assets is at stake for both the BSA and the LDS in the termination of just one BSA Council. It is clear from a legal standpoint all assets and liabilities will be initially turned over to the BSA in an attempt to salvage the GSL Council. It is also clear that should these efforts fail, approx. $6 million in assets will be sold off to cover the existing debt. From this point forward, the BSA has legal claim to all the property holdings of the GSL Council and can choose to retain this property or sell some, all, or parts of these properties to the LDS or other organizations. The only certainty from a real estate perspective is that the BSA will retain ownership of Bear Lake Camp due to deed restrictions as well as the Federal lease for Camp Steiner. What will happen to other non-real estate assets is less clear, but the language of the BSA bylaws asserts the BSA will make a determination which assets to keep and which to return or sell back to the LDS.
UTAH NATIONAL PARKS COUNCIL - 2014
In the interest of type space, time, and because Hinton & Burdick are awful awful people for inverting their Financial Statement, I will not be inserting this F/S into the post. I left the link above to the UNP Financial Statement if anyone wants to go hog wild. [2014 is the newest F/S posted]
Big take aways after reviewing the 2014 UNP Financial Statement:
  • Total Assets in 2014: $17,275,633; Total Liabilities: $734,307
  • $2,941,642 invested in Securities and REIT
  • $244,838 in total contributions
  • $10,731,547 in Land, Buildings, and Equipment
  • $124,500 in Scout Camp land is permanently earmarked for the BSA
  • $3,241,341 in total endowments
There isn’t really much more that can be said for the UNP that wasn’t already covered by our discussion of GSL. In short, the BSA will initially retain all assets and liabilities of the UNP, and should the UNP resolve, $734,307 in assets will be liquidated to cover existing debt. The remaining $10,731,547 is legally owned by the BSA with some, part, or all of these holdings being either retained or sold off the LDS or other third party interests. Part of the remaining $5,809,779 will either be retained by the BSA as it was raised for the purpose of scouting, while an unknown portion will be returned to the LDS Church.
Unfortunately after an exhaustive search online, no Financial Statements for TT could be found.
Roughly Estimating the Final Cost to the LDS from the BSA Split
So how much does the Latter-Day Saints Church lose by parting ways with the Boy Scouts? Well a rough estimation can be made with the following assumptions in mind:
  • (1) Assuming the LDS Church will either lose control of all land held by the BSA Councils or will have to buy the land back; [In reality some land will be gifted or donated back to the Church by the BSA]. Either way, all assets found in the “Land, Buildings, and Equipment” ledger of both Financial Sheets will be given to the BSA. GSL = $17,084,440 [Real-Estate (RE)]; UNP = $10,731,547 [RE]
  • (2) Assuming all liabilities are paid off by non-real estate assets dollar for dollar; [In reality, there will be a cost to manipulating assets and debts in a short term]. **GSL = $6,051,218 [Total Assets (TA) - Liabilities (L) - RE]; UNP = $5,809,779 [TA – L – RE]
  • (3) Assuming remaining assets are equally split between BSA and the LDS Church; [In reality, it is unknown how much of the remaining assets the BSA will retain after covering debt and securing real estate]. **GSL = $3,025,609 [$6,051,218 / 2]; UNP = $2,904,890 [$5,809,779 / 2]
  • This puts total LDS losses from the GSL ($20,110,049) and UNP ($13,363,437) at $33,746,49.
  • It is not unreasonable to assume TT will exact similar loses on the LDS Church as did GSL and UNP despite having no available Financial Statement. For this reason, the average of GSL and UNP was taken as the losses exacted by TT. Hence, TT = $16, 873,243 [$33,746,49 / 2].
It is from these assumptions we can arrive at a ball park figure of the LDS Church surrendering $50,619,728 in assets to the BSA in just the dissolution of three Utah BSA Councils.
This figure does not account for the substantial investment the LDS Church has put into other BSA Councils across the US, or the invest Mormon families have made in paying for Scouting uniforms, campouts, membership fees, and other costs. This figure also does not take into account the $50 million or more it will take to replicate a youth organization on the same scale as the Boy Scouts.
With this said, Bloomberg reports the Mormon Church collects $8 Billion a year in tithing alone from its wards around the world - $50 million lost plus another $50 million or more invested in creating a new youth organization is a drop in the bucket for the LDS Church and more than worth the expense to create a program better suited to the LDS Church’s international missionary needs.
submitted by Zfriske to BSA [link] [comments]


2018.05.10 09:43 Zfriske A Mormon Divorce – The Ending of a Boy Scout Era by the Numbers

There has been a lot of active discussion as of late on the reasons behind why the BSA National Executive Council would move to welcome young women and the LGBT community into its scouting ranks, and what these actions could mean for the future of Scouting including changes to its position on religious belief.
Many reasons have been postulated by media pundits and the public at large – from the BSA bowing to political correctness and public pressure to the BSA reacting to shore up its financial position.
The ugly truth is the Boy Scouts of America on a national level is dying while at the same time fending off a takeover by interest groups within the organization.
Let’s look at the BSA membership numbers through history, from 1960 to 2016:
Years BSA Members (In Thousands)
1960 3,783
1970 4,683
1975 3,933
1980 3,207
1981 3,244
1982 3,425
1983 3,567
1984 3,657
1985 3,755
1986 4,037
1987 4,180
1988 4,228
1989 4,247
1990 3,919
1991 3,467
1992 3,472
1993 3,426
1994 3,404
1995 3,419
1996 3,519
1997 3,624
1998 3,692
1999 3,743
2006 2,869
2007 2,856
2008 2,979
2009 2,912
2010 2,853
2011 2,837
2012 2,775
2013 2,613
2014 2,419
2015 2,355
2016 2,341
1960-1999 Source;2006-2016 Source
[Edit: The above chart has been revised since posting this morning to account for only Youth membership (before both adult, youth, and Learning for Life membership was counted between 1960 - 1999 while only youth membership was counted between 2006 - 2016). Special thanks to 00001000bit for a keen eye and noticing the data misalignment.]
PBS has a very nice graph of this data from 1911 to 1999 here. This graph includes "Cub Scouts, Sea Scouts, Explorers, and Adult volunteers", so the graph differs slightly from the chart above which only includes Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts, Explorers, and Venture Scouts.
From 1960 to 2016, BSA membership went from a high of 4,683,000 members nationwide to 2,341,000 members today. This is a 49.98% drop in membership across almost 50 years of scouting (with two prominent troughs in 1970 and again in 1989).
In spite of this incredible bleeding of membership, one demographic within the BSA has not only remained stable within the BSA, but has also grown its membership and influence within the Boy Scouts – The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (also know by the moniker Mormons or LDS).
Boy Scouts does not release a publicly available breakdown of its membership demographics, but it is estimated by The Salt Lake Tribune that there are 470,000 LDS boys enrolled in Boy Scouts in 2016. Mormon youth account for 20% of total BSA membership to date. While BSA does not release publicly available data on the demographic breakdown of its membership year by year, a few data points hint at the growing number of Mormon youth participating in Scouts.
One data point is following statement made by the BSA in its Environmental Scan 2014 document:
Many of the larger faith-based institutions are experiencing flat to slightly decreasing membership trends.
The faith-based organizations that have had growth in membership in the past few years are the Catholic Church and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Membership in civic organizations has been declining during the past decade.
Implications and Recommendations for the BSA
Councils should continue to recruit new traditional faith-based and civic chartered organizations and to grow membership in the existing units.
Because of limited access to public schools and declining membership in civic organizations, councils need to foster relationships with nontraditional organizations that have goals and values similar to those of the BSA.
Another interesting data point is the overall growth of the LDS Church’s own membership from 1960 to 2016:
Years LDS Members (In Thousands)
1960 1,693
1970 2,930
1975 3,572
1980 4,640
1981 4,920
1982 5,163
1983 5,352
1984 5,641
1985 5,919
1986 6,167
1987 6,394
1988 6,721
1989 7,308
1990 7,761
1991 8,090
1992 8,404
1993 8,689
1994 9,024
1995 9,339
1996 9,692
1997 10,071
1998 10,354
1999 10,752
2006 12,868
2007 13,193
2008 13,508
2009 13,824
2010 14,131
2011 14,441
2012 14,782
2013 15,082
2014 15,372
2015 15,634
2016 15,882
Source
The growth rate of the Church is incredible – over the same timeframe the BSA lost 49% of its membership, Mormons grew their congregation by 938% - from 1,693,000 members in 1960 to 15,882,000 in 2016. While these numbers do not reflect (1) the growth of boys over this same time period or (2) the number of these boys who joined the BSA membership, the overall growth of Mormon congregations can serve as a surrogate for the rapid growth of Mormon youth in Scouting based on the simple fact that until this week, Boys Scouts was viewed as an almost universal requirement for young Mormon men – one of the only independent activities largely outside the LDS sphere of influence that carried the same expectation of participation as did missionary work.
Jarom Shaver, Marketing Executive of Utah National Parks Council, writes:
Of course, Scouting has much to offer to prospective missionaries. That’s obvious; the Church wouldn’t include it in their youth programs if it didn’t.
A survey was done in 2014 of 62 recently returned Elders ranking resources that helped prepare them for the rigors of their missions. Scouting ranked number one above seminary and mission prep class.
Scouting done right will help youth stay on missions. Source
The leader of the LDS Church, President Thomas S. Monson, has this to say about Scouts:
“Scouting brings out the best in each of us,” President Monson says. “You’ve learned much from Scouting. Live what you’ve learned and will continue to learn. Help others to hike the trails, to keep steadfast in the paths of truth, of honor, of duty, that all of you can soar together on eagles’ wings. You are part of a mighty army of youth, even a royal army, and every organization, to be successful, has an honored tradition to uphold. May you uphold Scouting’s tradition, for it can be as a lighthouse beacon in the world of stormy seas, it can be a motivation to prepare for your role in life, it can be a yardstick against which you measure your accomplishments.” Source
And in a quote that has not aged well in light of recent news, President Thomas S. Monson stated in a 1991 address entitled “Called to Serve”:
“Brethren, if ever there were a time when the principles of Scouting were vitally needed—that time is now. If ever there were a generation who would benefit by keeping physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight—that generation is the present generation.”
So what does the growth of membership within The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints mean within the context of an overall decline of general membership within Boy Scouts?
As the Boys Scouts lose more and more boys each year across all demographics except the LDS demographic, this one demographic suddenly wields increasing influence within the BSA by leveraging both its growing majority membership and contributed funds.
Today the Latter-Day Saints make up both the largest and fastest growing demographic within Boy Scouts organization seeing a general decline in membership. With just 20% of total BSA membership, LDS Boy Scout Troops are given a number of privileges by the BSA National Executive Council not given to other non-LDS Troops. The BSA National Executive Council allows the LDS Boy Scout Troops and Cub Scout Dens to diverge from all other Troops/Dens in the following areas:
  • A discounted membership dues rate
The national BSA normally charges a $24 registration fee for each Scout and adult leader per year. However, a 2015 statement from the three BSA councils in Utah said those fees "are negotiated between the national BSA and the LDS Church. All registration fees are retained at the national BSA level." Source
No DUES are collected. (Traditional packs often assess dues for each boy.) Source
  • Adult Troop Leadership is determined by the LDS Church Leadership. Parents are welcome to volunteer on committees, but the roles of Scout Master and Assistant Scout Master are assigned by the Church.
The LDS Bishopric calls men or women (they do not have to be members) to serve as Cub Scout leaders for Primary age boys. Parents are always welcome to volunteer on committees and with activities. (In a traditional packs leaders are recruited). Source
Friends of Scouting has been controversial because of sometimes-high salaries for leaders of local councils. For example, the most-recent public income tax filings by those councils show total compensation (including benefits) of $341,789 a year for Rick Barnes, now-retired leader of the Salt Lake City-based Great Salt Lake Council; $236,267 for David Pack, head of the Orem-based Utah National Parks Council; and $210,528 for Allen Endicott, who guides the Ogden-based Trapper Trails Council. Source
  • LDS Church forbids overnight camp outs for boys under 11 years old. Any campouts in general must receive permission from the Church leadership. The Church also does not permit any hiking or scouting activities for all age levels on Sunday or Monday evenings.
LDS Church policy states “No Scout sponsored overnight camping should be planned for boys under age 11”. The BSA requirements state “If your chartered organization does not permit Cub Scout camping, you may substitute a family campout or a daylong activity.” Seek the Bishops council for permission for scout related activities at a ward campout or father-son campout. Family camping is always allowed. (Traditional Cub Scouts may attend Resident Camp, Webelos Den Overnighters, and/or Pack overnighters). Source
The LDS Church does not approve of hiking (or other such scouting activities) on Sunday. And Scouting events are not held on Monday evening, the night designated for family home evening. Source
  • LSD Church forbids the use of candles in BSA ceremonial events.
It is against LDS Church policy to light candles inside the building. (Many BSA ceremonies use lit candles). Source
  • LDS Church does not implement the full BSA program, instead choosing a ‘selective implementation.’
So, if Scouting is an inspired program that works, what does my ‘full declaration’ of what is wrong with Scouting consist of? One simple truth – we don’t implement the full program.
From my observation, many wards and stakes treat Scouting as if it were a buffet dinner, taking a little of this, a portion of that, and a side of something else. They implement only some of the program and then proclaim, “It doesn’t work! We’ve tried it!” They indict the program as a failure when in fact the failure arises as a direct result of the elements of the program they did not implement.
Let me illustrate with a few examples of perceived problems within Scouting that arise from our ‘selective implementation’. Source
  • BSA Councils are tasked with respecting the religious beliefs of its scouts by not favoring one belief over another. Visit the Utah National Parks BSA Council webpage and select the “Church/Council Leaders” tab. Notice how the Boy Scout handbook is called the “LDS Scouting Handbook,” how Boy Scout Leaders are called “Stake Leaders,” and how Boy Scout camping sites are called “Stake Encampments.” The use of LDS language on an official BSA Council webpage is an unacceptable example of religious favoritism the BSA National Executive Committee has, until late, turned a blind eye towards. Compare this webpage to another BSA Utah Council, the Trail Trappers, and one can see the difference – not a single mention of LDS religious terminology is present despite having a large majority of Mormon scouts.
  • Allegations of the BSA National Executive Council turning a blind eye to LDS Troops running so-called “Eagle Scout Factories” and devaluing the meaning of the Eagle Scout Award.
(1) New Eagle Scout Awards Stats By State
  • Utah has a state population of 2,985,000 in 2015. Also this year, 5,765 scouts earned their Eagle Scout Award. This means almost 2 out of every 1000 Utah residents earned an Eagle Scout Award in 2015.
  • The next highest new Eagle Scout Awards by state was California with 4,887 new Eagles Scouts and a state population of 39,030,000 residents. Compared to Utah, 1.25 out of every 10,000 residents earned an Eagle Scout Award in 2015. Other states show comparable numbers to California.
No state produced more Eagle Scouts in 2015 than Utah. Thanks in large part to the strong support Scouting receives from the LDS church there, 5,765 young men became Eagle Scouts in Utah in 2015.
Utah is No. 1 on the list for at least the seventh year in a row. That’s every year since 2009 — the first year for which detailed Eagle Scout statistics were made available to me. Source
(2) New Eagle Scout Awards Stats By Age
  • In 2015, the average age a scout first earns his Eagle Award across the US was 17.34 years old.
  • In 2017, the Utah National Parks Council stated that within their Council, 3% of their scouts earn their Eagle Scout Award before the age of 14, 26% of their scouts earn their Eagle Scout Award before the age of 16, and 67% of their scouts earn their Eagle Scout Award after age 16. Nearly 1 and 3 Utah National Council Scouts earn their Eagle Scout Award before the age of 16. Source
(3) New Eagle Scout Awards Stats By Council
  • In 2015, the top three Councils with the most new Eagle Scouts where (1) 591 Utah National Parks, (2) 590 Great Salt Lake, (3) 589 Trapper Trails – all Utah-based BSA Councils consisting 97% - 99% of Mormon scouts.
Source
At just 20% of the total BSA membership, the LDS Church already retains a huge amount of influence on how Boy Scouts troops in their area are run and financed. For the BSA National Executive Council, this has been a major source of concern as the LDS Church had moved to assert more and more control over how local Boy Scout Troops operate. One of the biggest areas of concern has been a big push by the Church for the establishment of LDS-BSA Relationship Committees across the nation.
From the LDS-BSA Relationship Committees Website:
“An LDS-BSA Relationships committee should be organized in each BSA local council to help maintain and strengthen working relationships between the Church and the BSA local council. This committee includes a member of each stake presidency within the BSA local council.”
And even more alarming is this example on their webpage:
”The Denver LDS-BSA Relationships Committee is functioning effectively because of priesthood leadership provided by the Area Seventy. This powerful arrangement has been a tremendous blessing to both the Church and Scouting. The Area Seventy serves as the chair of the LDS-BSA Relationships Committee. He leads out in this meeting and the BSA council representatives provide support. Because of the strong leadership provided by the Area Seventy, re-chartering, the quality of the Scouting programs, and relationships between the Church and the BSA local council have improved. This has opened up other doors for the Church.”
The LDS Church keeps a database of all BSA councils across the nation and the success of establishing LDS committees within each council here. Of the 283 councils listed, 155 have established LDS-BSA Relationship committees active within them. Hence, more than 1 out of every 2 Boy Scout Councils across the United States are impacted by a LDS Relationship Committee geared towards “opening up other doors for the Church.”
What can be taken away from the above information?
Circa 2006, the BSA National Executive Committee realized the Boy Scouts of America sat at a crucial junction in its vaunted 120 year history and had one of two paths to consider in moving forward:
(1) Maintain the Status Quo
  • Retain the tradition of focusing on the character development of young men.
  • Continue to deal with declining general membership in the face of rising LDS Church membership and influence. Note: As fast as the LDS membership is rising, its youth alone cannot stem the declining general membership.
  • The LDS Church will continue to expand its influence on the local level by penetrating more and more Boy Scout Councils with LDS Relationship Committees geared towards opening doors for the Church.
  • The LDS Church will continue to ask for special provisions for its Boy Scout troops, and gear all BSA troops towards teaching values important in both missionary work and the LDS faith – not necessary Boy Scout ideals focused on the great outdoors.
  • Alienate minorities within Boy Scouts – especially the non-religious but also those who are not members of the LDS Church.
(2) Shift Directions
  • Retain the tradition of focusing on the character development of young men. At the same time, expand this mission to include fostering the character of young women, the LGBT community, and other minority groups.
  • Address decline in membership by tapping new membership sources. Lose 20% of members in the short-term to religious interest groups. Gain more members in the long-term who do not seek to exert undue influence or extract privileges for a particular interest group.
  • Remain free from third party influences and true to Scouting ideals. Maintain fairness and consistency across all BSA Councils – no Council gets special privileges due to their majority membership or fund raising status.
  • Give the LDS Church an opportunity to create its own youth organization better suited to training missionaries rather than throwing its weight around to try and change the Boy Scouts into something its not.
In choosing Option #2, both the Latter-Day Saints and the Boy Scouts win big.
The Latter-Day Saints finally have an opportunity to create from the ground up a perfect youth organization to address the Church’s needs in preparing its young men and women for missionary work. The Church has long been criticized for funding men’s youth programs at a much high level than women’s youth programs. Creating a new youth organization will allow the Church to address these concerns as well.
The Boy Scouts are free to pursue the original mission of the organization established in 1910 - "to teach patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred values." While a loss of 20% of its membership will hurt in the short-term, the BSA must take actions to preserve itself as an independent youth organization not subject to the influences of any one membership demographic.
While some scouts and their families may feel disappointed with the BSA National Executive Council decision to incorporate young women and minorities into its ranks, diversifying Scouts is a much better alternative to being subjected to the will of a majority third-party interest.
submitted by Zfriske to BSA [link] [comments]


2017.08.14 22:49 Pooker_ Top Prospect Update [POSITION PLAYERS]

As the minor league baseball season comes to a close in the next few weeks, here's an update on how our top position players have been faring this season in the minors. Note: For those unfamiliar, ISO stands for Isolated Slugging Percentage (SLG - AVG = ISO), it's basically a more accurate way to evaluate a player's power. I cite it quite a few times in this post.
 
Jo Adell OF — No. 1 prospect, AZL Angels (Rookie)
Stats: .283/.336/.538, 4 HR, 5 SB
Adell has put together a solid campaign in rookie ball this season fresh out of high school. He's boasting his power as evidenced by his four long balls in 28 games and impressive .255 ISO. He's a perfect 5-for-5 in stolen base attempts this season and also has five triples, so you can count on his wheels to compliment his power. However, Jo still has swing-and-miss in his game; he's struck out in 24% of his plate appearances this season.
 
Jam Jones OF — No. 2 prospect, Inland Empire 66ers (High-A)
Stats (combined): .284/.346/.438, 12 HR, 24 SB
Jones is excelling in his first full non-rookie season in the minors at just 20 years of age and was promoted to High-A after 86 games in Burlington. He's actually played better since his promotion, batting .330/.375/.485 in 23 games for the 66ers. Jones has taken a huge step forward in the power department this year, swatting 12 homers in 2017 after hitting just six in the previous two seasons.
 
Matt Thaiss 1B — No. 3 prospect, Mobile BayBears (Double-A)
Stats (combined): .277/.366/.391, 8 HR, 11% BB rate
Thaiss is quickly moving through the Angels system and was promoted to Double-A after 84 games at Inland Empire. He has excellent plate discipline, he walks in about 11% of his plate appearances, and is hitting over .300 since being promoted, leading to his current .403 OBP in Double-A. One questionable aspect of Thaiss' game is his power. He posted a .134 ISO in the hitter friendly California League which is so-so for a corner infielder and has a weak .054 ISO in Double-A with no home runs so far.
 
Brandon Marsh OF — No. 6 prospect, Orem Owlz (Rookie)
Stats: .395/.453/.645, 3 HR, 17 RBI
Marsh sat out last season due to injury but has made a strong comeback in 2017, playing exclusively with Orem. In 18 games, he's knocked 11 extra base hits and has a .250 ISO currently. He's played mostly right field this year with some center field experience but I imagine he'll take a corner outfield spot as he moves up the system.
 
Taylor Ward C — No. 11 prospect, Mobile BayBears (Double-A)
Stats (combined): .260/.380/.404, 53 BB, 54 K
Ward is teaming up with Thaiss to create a high OBP dynamic in the middle of the BayBears lineup this season. The 2015 first rounder is posting a ridiculous .471 OBP in 19 games at Double-A this season and has a .917 OPS. Between Inland Empire and Mobile, he's striking out and walking at almost an identical rate, which is fantastic. Defensively, he's thrown out a respectable 32% of would be base stealers.
 
Michael Hermosillo OF — No. 13 prospect, Salt Lake Bees (Triple-A)
Stats (combined): .259/.367/.377, 29 SB, 20 2B
Hermosillo has rocketed up the system this season after initally starting the year in High-A ball. He earned a quick promotion to Mobile and spent most of the season there before recently being promoted to Triple-A Salt Lake. Speed and patience are Hermosillo's forte, he's walked in over 11% of his plate appearances between all three levels and has caused havoc on the bases with 29 stolen bags, while being caught just 11 times. He hasn't shown a whole lot of power in his career (15 home runs in 335 games) but is still only 22 years young so he may develop more strength in the next few years.
 
Brennon Lund OF — No. 19 prospect, Mobile BayBears (Double-A)
Stats: .326/.397/.437, 20 SB, 132 H
Lund is a hit machine, racking up 132 hits in 102 games this season. He started the year in Single-A Burlington, then hit his way to Inland Empire, then promptly hit his way to another promotion and now plays for Double-A Mobile. His on base percentage at each level? .400, .385, and .447, respectively. Lund doesn't hit for much power, his career ISO is .106, but has a knack for getting on base and putting the ball in play. It'll be interesting to see how his speed plays at the higher levels, he swiped 14 bags in Single-A but is 6-for-12 on attempts since being promoted.
 
Thoughts? Who do you like most or think has a chance to make an impact for our club? Are there other prospects you like that weren't mentioned on this list?
submitted by Pooker_ to AngelsMiLB [link] [comments]


2016.10.17 06:05 johndehlin Two Orem, Utah wards eliminated in a single stake?

A tip: "Orem Utah Sharon Park stake reorganizing Oct. 30th. Eliminating 2 wards. Reducing from 11 wards to 9 I believe. Thought you'd like to know. It was announced today in sacrament mtg."
Can anyone confirm and/or explain?
submitted by johndehlin to exmormon [link] [comments]


2014.04.27 06:51 exBOMgirl Writings from "Anthropology of Mormonism" class at Utah Valley University

I took Anthropology of Mormonism this past Spring semester (2014) at Utah Valley University. My instructor is a Seminary teacher at a private High school in Salt Lake City. I was very impressed with his ability to teach the subject with little bias. I was the only Ex-Mormon in the class. There was one non-Mormon and two inactive Mormons. The remaining nine were active believing Mormons. The instructor's final comments to the class were that he liked to challenge his testimony and look at the tough issues concerning the LDS church.
My presentation for the class was excerpts from the discussion I led during Martin Luther King Jr. celebration at UVU. My instructor was very impressed by my "engaged" research. The discussion forum was about what values Mormons, Ex-Mormons, and Non-Mormons have in common. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdXIdkfCvpQ
This is a Journal Discussion that I submitted in the class.
Journal 1) The term is used a lot, but there's not really a clear and concise definition. How would you define the word "Mormon?" What is a "Mormon?" Is it a confessional definition? A cultural one? Are there different types of "Mormons?" Can people from different countries, ethnicities, etc. be "Mormons?" If so, what do they have in common?
One could answer the question, "what is a “Mormon?”, in several ways. There is an insider’s view or the outsider’s view, and there is a person with no understanding of Mormonism. The truth about a person’s view is subjective and according to their experience and knowledge of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The insider’s view has much to do with their identity. One of the foremost scholars in Peace Studies, John Paul Lederach, wrote, “At the deepest level, identity is lodged in the narratives of how people see themselves, who they are, where they have come from, and what they fear they will become or lose (2003. p. 55).” The subjective definition of a “Mormon” is in “how people see themselves” and that is the most complex part of this question.
When I was an active member of the LDS church, I believed in the orthodox definition. I thought that a Mormon was someone who strictly adhered to the teachings of the LDS church. This orthodox perspective, as well as my experience of growing up in Orem, Utah, was how I saw myself and the people around me who were Mormon. The next part of Lederach’s quote, “Where I have come from”, is my life experience. I have lived in Utah and the Midwest; I have lived around other religious cultures which have brought me to an understanding that a person’s religiosity is more about what they believe rather than their behavior. Regardless of whether a Mormon goes to church or is temple worthy, it all comes down to what they believe they need for salvation.
So today, my definition of a Mormon is someone who believes that the LDS church holds the keys and ordinances for salvation. I think that this point is the only unifying factor in the identity of Mormons. Mormons vary in their beliefs as far as practice, policy and which doctrines they follow.
There are different types of Mormons and within those types, there are other differences. My experience is only with the Mormons in Utah Valley. The most simple of categories would be the “active, “inactive” and the “former” Mormons. The “active” Mormons can be broken down further according to the level of calling, temple worthy, cultural, cafeterian, new order, in the closet, and obligatory. I think “level of calling” and “temple worthy” are self explanatory. What I mean by “cultural” is that these members may not have a strong belief in the church but, they value the community aspect and the benefits of group identity. “Cafeterian” Mormons pick and chose which doctrines they believe and which teachings they follow. “New order” Mormons want to reform the church, many want more progressive or liberal thinking in the church. “In the closet” means that they do not have a testimony but, they remain active so that they can maintain their church relationships and familial relationships. The “obligatory” Mormons may be active for a variety of reasons, for business, family, or the need to belong to the greater community. I am sure I could expound and define other categories but, for the purposes of the journal, this is as far as I will analyze. I should make note that all of these categories may cross or are not exclusive. There are “temple worthy” Mormons who are “obligatory” and there are “cultural” Mormons with a high “level of calling”.
The category of “inactive” can cross the lines of subcategories as well, and this is speaking in terms of “inactive” Mormons in Utah Valley. The subcategories are “believing”, “apathetic”, and “cultural”. The “believing” inactive Mormon usually has many reasons why they no longer attend church. Some of the inactive Mormons have doubts about certain practices or doctrines, some don’t feel comfortable in their ward and some don’t have the energy or time to devote to the church, i.e., mental or physical illness, they work on Sundays, or they are a single parent. The “apathetic” inactive Mormon does not make waves. They usually don’t associate with many active Mormons; however, most of their family is Mormon. They do not discuss religion, or they avoid the topic. Their Mormon identity is very strong even though they will not discuss it. Their strong identity is apparent when they defend their family’s beliefs. Th inactive ”cultural” Mormon has a strong identity to their Mormon upbringing but, for many reasons, doesn’t want to attend church. For some, they cannot maintain the high level of commitment, or they feel conflicted with other values, or they believe in a more personal worship rather than church worship. Again, I’m sure there are other reasons.
The “former” Mormons are surrounded with many false stereotypes, and since this is my main area of research, I may expound more on this category. These categories are simplified, as well. There are the “diasporic”, “ex-Mormons”, “post-Mormons”, “angry ex-Mormons”, “christian ex-mormons”, “agnostic/atheist ex-Mormons”, and “anti-Mormons/apostates. The diasporic” are the former Mormons who leave Utah Valley and cannot abide coming back. They do not want anything to do with the church and don’t want its influence in their life. They leave Utah Valley for a more diverse culture. There are some diasporic former Mormons who live in Utah Valley, but are not of Utah Valley. They are annoyed by the Mormon influence and culture and try to ignore or steer clear of it. “Ex-Mormons” are former Mormons who want to define that they were Mormons once, but are no longer believers. “Post-Mormons” are uncomfortable with the idea that being Mormon defines who they are. “Post-Mormons” have moved past their lives as Mormons and identify with various faiths. “Angry ex-Mormons” are the stereotype for most Mormons’ perception of ex-Mormons because these are the most vocal of ex-Mormons. The best way to understand the angst of these Mormons is in the context of grief. Many of these angry ex-Mormons were once very strong in their Mormon identity. These ex-Mormons believe that the LDS church is a fraud.
When a strong relationship is betrayed, and a person ends that relationship the betrayal and loss is comparable to the anger stage of the grieving process. “Christian ex-Mormons” believe that the LDS church is a fraud and find that other Christian faiths are more accepting. Most of them believe that the Book of Mormon is not a testament of Jesus Christ and the Bible is the only word of God. Some Christian ex-Mormons who convert to other fundamentalist faiths believe that the LDS church is an agent of Satan. “Agnostic/Atheist ex-Mormons” have done much research into the historical ambiguities and misrepresentations of the LDS church’s teachings/doctrines. These ex-Mormons conclude that Joseph Smith was a fraud, and then they find contradictions in Christian dogma, as well. This group is usually very wary of accepting things on faith or authority and the find more comfort in evidence. “Anti-Mormons/Apostates” needs the most disambiguation.
There are many “active” LDS who think that any person who doubts the authority of the church is an apostate or anti-Mormon. There are many ex-Mormons, and it may be that most believe the church has misrepresented historical record, and they believe the scientific evidence against the historicity of the Book of Mormon and the Book of Abraham. Although most Ex-Mormons believe this, the majority are not bent on destroying the LDS church. The extreme anti-Mormon groups are usually fundamentalist Christian groups who claim that Mormons are blasphemous and that Mormons are not Christian.
In conclusion, salvation is most rooted in identity and is at the heart of what Mormons “fear they will become or lose”. What Mormons fear is that they will become separated from their families in this life and the loss of their family in the next life. The strong identity can and often does draw lines in interfaith marriages and families. Because the belief that the church holds the only authority for saving ordinances is central to every LDS member. “What is a Mormon” can be looked at through various other ways. The complexity of the answers are due to the concept of a living church, which makes the identity of Mormons change. The historical context of what it means to be Mormon adds another layer of complexity. Again this short explanation is an attempt to categorize the varying beliefs and identities in the Mormon culture, in Utah Valley. I am sure there are more categories to add in the future.
submitted by exBOMgirl to exmormon [link] [comments]


2014.04.18 02:22 starbuckssatan I Just Want To Talk About It

Last year on July 3, 2013 I returned from my full time mission after being out just over 6 weeks. I was not worthy to be there because I had transgressions I needed to fix. When I returned home it was hard and at first I surely thought I would end up on /exmormon by the end of the year. The beginning of my repentance process was hard and painful, there had been many harsh words said in my family and I was angry and depressed. I was the talk of the town and it bugged me, which is weird because normally gossip doesnt bug me. I moved out of my house and went to school in Orem. I got a landscaping job, and things seemed to be looking up. I joined a singles ward with a compassionate and loving bishop who helped me every step to full fellowship. I know that odds are this will fall on empty ears and nobody will care. But if you are going through the repentance process I just want to tell you a few things:
  1. People are SOOOOOOO stupid. dont listen to them, if they wouldnt visit you in the hospital, their opinion doesnt matter.
  2. Listen to this song (I KNOW RAP IS BAD BUT THE MESSAGE IS GOOD I PROMISE) Then apply it to your situation and how you feel
  3. Then watch Les Miserables. It is the powerful story of Jean Val Jean and repentance and all that jazz. The Music is great and it is a classic.
  4. Remember how much our heavenly father and his son Jesus Christ love you. Even if you are afraid to talk to him and ask for help he is there for you.
  5. The Church is true and your scriptures will give you strength
  6. There are always people there for you to talk to and if you dont have anyone. talk to me
I know 6 is a weird number to stop on, but to me those were the most helpful things. I want you all to know how positive the repentance process was me and that I gained a testimony of the LDS Church
I testify to you all that this is the true church of god, and it was restored to the earth by the prophet joseph smith. I testify that our heavenly father will always love you and that you are imperatively important to him.
Thank you if you read the whole thing if not
TL;DR I went throught the repentance process and it was a great experience and if you are going through it and want help feel free to message me. Also The LDS Church is true
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2012.03.18 07:39 MurderousRage Walmart and the sanctity of midnight

Warning: This is very, very tangential to mormonism/exmo. I just need to rant.
My personal outer darkness must be the Orem Walmart between 11:00 and 12:00 on Saturday night. Why? Combine food storage, ward gatherings, frugality and weird obsessions about when the Sabbath starts.
Seriously. I just needed some tampons. I'll own up to picking up some conditioner while I was there. So a grand total of two items – one of them urgently needed.
As is their habit, this particular Walmart closes their express lanes at this time. This leaves me to stand in the regular lines. Except who's in the regular lines at the Orem Walmart between 11:00 and 12:00 on Saturday night?
Mormon grandmas in their 40s who are buying three month's worth of food for their extended Utah families of 112 – along with an expansion pack for their 30-year food storage, including enough paper towels and toilet paper to last through the Millennium.
And, of course, they have to check out by midnight. If not, they're bad. Upholding one definition of when the Sabbath starts is suddenly the most sacred commandment ever.
Enter the girls in front of me. There were two of them, college aged like me. They had multiple carts overflowing with merchandise. You'd think they were going on the ark or something. From the looks of their items, it seemed that they were in charge of some single's ward brunch or something. Hell, it might have been a stake brunch. Either way, they had ridiculous amounts of everything.
I'm standing there with some tampons in my little basket. I know both of them saw me while all of us were waiting for said grandma to work her way through her cartloads. (Also, how the hell do you manage to shop multiple carts per person? Maybe it's easy once you've had twenty-three kids.) Anyway, both girls my age notice me, my tampons and decide that letting me go ahead of them is not an option. You know, it's only half an hour to midnight and all... Ideally we should be home before the Sabbath. Okay, it's annoying but they were there first. I'll live.
But NOOO.... They can't just stop at that! They go up to the register and pull out pages and pages of printouts for price matching! Every single item (of which I swear there were hundreds) is checked against a list to ensure that they do not waste a single cent. I'm not kidding. Meticulous lists and ad printouts that were shown to the cashier as he carefully takes his time to scan and change the price of every single item.
Okay, so seriously: Two college girls who must know what it's like to suddenly need feminine hygiene products think keeping the Sabbath holy at all costs outranks losing TWO MINUTES to let a moody, menstruating peer buy her tampons. Tampons I couldn't buy earlier because I was unable to even stand because I was in a shit ton of pain and I was waiting for my Advil to kick in even a little bit.
WHAT THE FUCK!?!?!?!?
If it weren't for the kind woman behind me who sympathized with me and listened to my rants as we waited, I would have lost it. It'd like to say thanks, but she seemed too TBM to be on here, let alone Reddit.
Anyway, what the fuck makes 12:01 more magical than 11:59? Has an obsession with arbitrary rules really become so important that kindness or even common decency goes out the window? Seriously, what would Jesus do? What would you do any other day of the week or time of the day?
I know, I know... I'm obviously hormonally imbalanced right now and additionally fueled by rage towards the mormon culture. But seriously. Don't price match 1,000,000,000 items in a non-coupon lane when no express lanes are open. And if you do, have some courtesy.
TL;DR: Why is shopping at 12:01 a sin? Also, if a woman is simply trying to buy tampons, let her in front of you.
submitted by MurderousRage to exmormon [link] [comments]


3 - Idhazhin Oram Video  Dhanush, Shruti  Anirudh - YouTube THE SINGLES WARD Provo 231st YSA Dance Off: I'm So Excited THE SINGLES WARD trailer - MORMON MOVIE THE MEN'S CLUB / EPISODE 1 / A MAN'S WORLD - YouTube Orem YSA 32 ward FHE activity Gloc-9 ft. J.Kris, Abaddon, Shanti Dope - Norem (Official ... BARRIO DE SOLTERO 2 ( THE SINGLES WARD II ) - YouTube Orem 9th Ward Youth Dance Singles Ward Soundtrack - When Grandpa Comes

Orem Utah Timpview Stake MormonWikia Fandom

  1. 3 - Idhazhin Oram Video Dhanush, Shruti Anirudh - YouTube
  2. THE SINGLES WARD
  3. Provo 231st YSA Dance Off: I'm So Excited
  4. THE SINGLES WARD trailer - MORMON MOVIE
  5. THE MEN'S CLUB / EPISODE 1 / A MAN'S WORLD - YouTube
  6. Orem YSA 32 ward FHE activity
  7. Gloc-9 ft. J.Kris, Abaddon, Shanti Dope - Norem (Official ...
  8. BARRIO DE SOLTERO 2 ( THE SINGLES WARD II ) - YouTube
  9. Orem 9th Ward Youth Dance
  10. Singles Ward Soundtrack - When Grandpa Comes

Singles Ward Soundtrack - God be with you till we meet again - Duration: 2:36. Zachary Bush 28,784 views. 2:36. 50+ videos Play all Mix - Singles Ward Soundtrack - When Grandpa Comes YouTube ... This was an event taken during our ward activity. Going down the hill with ice blocks. Songs used: 'Do you want to be a snow man?' Karaoke ver. Slide theme from Super Mario 64 Sonic 3d Blast Snow ... When Jonathan Jordan gets divorced he's thrust back into the world of being a single Mormon - a world who's ultimate goal is eternal marriage. Struggling to fit in, Jonathan decides to stop going ... The Men's Club trails the life of 4 eligible young men running through the schemes of love, betrayal and friendship, channeling their inner voices and forgin... Singles 2nd Ward - DeVerl - Lincoln Hoppe Clip - Duration: 0:32. Lincoln Hoppe 6,823 views. 0:32. TOP UPCOMING ACTION MOVIES 2020/2021 (Trailers) - Duration: 42:42. Available on all platforms: https://backl.ink/657536 Don’t forget to subscribe: http://bit.ly/UniversalRecPH Welcome to Universal Records' page! We are the n... Dalen y Christine deben mantener la paz entre los suegros que están discutiendo de como deben hacerse las cosas. El Barrio de los Adultos Solteros 2 es una m... The LDS 231st Young Single Adult Ward's Dance Off preformed at Timpanogos High School in Orem February 22nd, 2014. Featuring: I Just Died in Your Arms Tonight by Cutting Crew Watch Idhazhin Oram Official Song Video from the Movie 3 Song Name - Idhazhin Oram Movie - 3 Singer - Ajesh Ashok & Anirudh Music - Anirudh Ravichander Lyric... Ourem 9th Ward Youth Dance - Zapp and Roger